Most creators don’t make money, and if they do, their revenue stream is constantly at risk of vanishing overnight. They don’t lack talent – they’re simply over-optimising for the short term.

In this rapid-fire conversation, Manychat CMO Ido Mart and creator Grace Andrews (ex-Diary of a CEO) get honest about what it actually looks like to build a business that doesn’t stop when you do, and how to pivot away from algorithm dependence and build an owned audience.